“You could not be more wrong if you tried.”--Carl

 

You are right, Carl. I should have written: “His REVANCHIST evo politics is exactly what was repudiated in the last American general election, and why “None of the Above” is the fastest growing religious affiliation in the USA.”

 

Be assured, Fern, that Carl does not speak for me, or millions of other Americans. His con evo politics is exactly what was repudiated in the last American general election, and why “None of the Above” is the fastest growing religious affiliation in the USA.

 

Kurt

Brooklyn, NY

I think that you make some valid points, Celinda. Certainly to say “evangelicals need to stop defining themselves by what they are against, and need to emphasize graciousness in their relationships with others” looks like the beginning of wisdom to me. Unfortunately, here in America, conservative evangelicals are more interested in engaging in guerrilla warfare against Christian liberals than they are with engaging with others on issues of common estimate. The result is that Church attendance is down all across the board.

 

Kurt

Brooklyn, NY

Quite frankly Nersen, I’m tiring of having to explain the facts on the ground to you over and over again.

Bankers love numbers, don’t they Nersen?  But you seem incapable of understanding that all across the board--except for in-migration in the case of the RCers--American denominations (conservative, liberal, whatever) are losing members. And the basic reason for this is decades of right-wing evangelical “witnessing.” People are fed up with ALL organized religion because of it. Even in the UK, under the evangelical Carey (much milder than the very toxic American variety of evangelicalism) the CofE lost more than 25% of its worshipers on his watch.

Good point, Stuart. I’ve wondered as much myself.

 

Pagentmaster: Obviously, Dr. Mullen’s paper presents the TEC elected leadership’s view of our polity. For another discussion of Fort Worth, see Preludium: http://anglicanfuture.blogspot.com/

 

Posted by: nersen Sunday 20 September 2009 - 02:24pm

“More excuses, Kurt?   Why do only 10k people go to TEC(USA) churches in NH? Don't tell me.... they population is too stupid or there are lots of immigrants..... why are they not flocking into that diocese? I hope your excuses console you re the terminal decline of reviosionst churches but, at the current rate, TEC will be empty in not many years.”

 

I guess you simply don’t “get it”, do you Nerson? People are not “flocking” to ANY denominational Church because over the past three and a half decades reactionary evangelicals have accustomed most Americans to think of organized religion as a bunch of anti-woman, anti-gay, anti-evolution, Creationism-mongering, home-schooling bigots. Growing numbers of Americans are skeptical of ALL religious organizations and doctrines--“libbbruuuls” included. Your fantasy of TEC’s “terminal decline” may make you feel better, but now that most of the conservative evos and what’s left of the (small to begin with) anglo-papalist crowd have flushed themselves out, TEC stands poised to recover--and maybe even grow a bit in the coming decades.

 

Well, Nersen, your “numbers game” is so typical of British evos. Doesn’t quality mean anything to you? I can assure you that students at elite American colleges and universities are definitely NOT evangelicals. Do you want to know what the fastest growing religious category in America is? I’ll tell you--it’s “none of the above.” That’s what thirty years of right-wing evangelical “new things” have done to the religious landscape in this country. While most people here regard the words “evangelical Christian” as synonymous with “right-wing yahoo” it has resulted in increasingly large numbers of people who are turned off by all religion. This is a direct result of right-wing evangelicalism. During the same period, TEC has had go deal with an underground guerrilla war (their description) against our Church. No wonder attendance is going down. If I had to deal with right-wing nut jobs every time I went to Mass, I’d stop going too.

Dr. Robert Bruce Mullen has a fairly full treatment of Episcopal Church organization and  cogent arguments why the schismatics of the ACNA have no right to Episcopal Church property:

 

 

Well, Nersen, for one thing, the immigration of millions of RCers into this country since the 1840s. The Roman Church would be loosing significantly in both attendance and membership were it not for continued massive in-migration. If as many Anglicans had immigrated here, we would be as large. As for the Baptists, well, as we say here “Not everyone is college material.” People who find it difficult to read will not readily follow a Prayer Book liturgy.

 

Kurt

Brooklyn, NY

Wow. A 25 per cent decline under the evangelical Archbishop George Carey, eh? And some folks point fingers at Episcopal Church attendance figures.

 

Kurt

Brooklyn, NY