To Kevin,

In fact I don’t really agree with any of what you have written.

I fail to see how a side which has no texts countenancing what thye are proposing has any proof texts at all. The big objection to proof-texts is a legalistic deception as proof texts are key statements on the holistic Biblical views as a whole. Hence with the sex issues, all the texts either pronounce male/female as God’s purpose or same sex as error. The claim that some ‘interpret’ the scriptures differently is nonsense in the respect that if the speed limit sign says 30mph that’s what it means, I cant make it mean 40mph. So the claim a holistic view is taken by both sides is another baseless claim.

To suggest we are all sinners in response to this issue is another deception as we are disagreeing on what a particular sin is; if we cant agree it is God who defines what sin is, One could simply exlcude oneself from any sin one didnt want to be counted. But Jesus died for forgiveness of sins, one cant receive that forgiveness if one doesnt recognise what one has been forgiven for. In this way this is a core issue of faith.  

Furthermore most Christians worldwide who believe the word of God and know same sex relations are error, are not evangelicals but Roman Catholics, of whom many might be labelled evangelical.

Now Jesus promised the Holy Spirit would lead the disciples and apostles in truth and remind them of all He had said, which of they wrote along with the rest of the NT once filled with the Holy Spirit. So to suggest the Holy Spirit can lead people to disagree with what the Holy Spirit inpired in the Bible is really nothing short of denying the work of the Holy Spirit.  

When the question WWJD is asked, if there is already acts or teaching on the issue recorded in the Bible we already know WWJD.

As God created male and female there is no Godly concept of gay and straight communities. I am sure if Christ had come today he would have spent time with the Jews as He did then as He was born a Jew, God’s plan was salvation from the Jews. I see Jesus welcomed all who came to Him and had harsh words for all who disputed with what He said.

An extraordinary statement was made ‘making those of us who think we have the truth very uncomfortable indeed.’ How could we not think we had the truth if we believe Jesus Christ and His teaching is the truth and affirm it? On this issue I am very comfortable indeed, I know Jesus Christ is the truth and the Biblical testimony only excludes and condemns same sex relations.

In fact I am sure all are getting on with the job as they see it, but there are two increasingly different and contrary gospels being shared.

I noted reported comments from a leading CofE cannon that this apointment was a nail in the coffin of Christian homophobia. The church is splitting in two on this issue and the ones who claim it isn't. are the ones who have introduced the false teaching that is causing it.

The serpent said to Eve, 'did God really say..'

To WATERANGEL,

You ask a good question. As the Biblical testimony is clear that God's purpose is for man and woman and same sex is error, there is no scrupture to support it and sufficient  to exclude and condemn it throughout the Bible. Therefore if one can claim someothing such as same sex relations isn't error, one could say anything they wished about what they thought God's purposes were whether it could be substantiated or not. The biggest disbelief is in the church.

So yes its one of the main problems for the Christian church at this time, and why they are rightly splitting over it.  

To Colin Coward,

I gave some references in my post of Thursday 3 December 2009 - 08:53,. please look them up again if you missed them. I am certainly not going to exchange personal judgments and opinions with you, if your argument is baseless then we can’t debate. 

To Colin Coward,

Thank you for your reply. In the face of a dozen or so scriptures which clearly exclude and condemn same sex relations, you have yet to offer any scripture or reasoning to support what you propose.  This is of course because there is none as what you propose is contrary to what the scriptures say. I fail to see how you can attribute the word of God, as cited and quoted, as somehow my version, as though I wrote the Bible!

 “With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in God's likeness.” - James 3:9

For the record, when I accepted Jesus Christ as Lord, I died and became alive in Christ.  “In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. “ - Romans 6:11
"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!" 2 Coriunthians 5:17 

Bless you

I saw the book on sale yesterday, it is some tome and work. What I saw of the TV series was very well presented as well and very interesting. Sadly, the history of Christianity is often contradictory to Jesus teaching and the word of God and detracts the focus from God to human's failings. I have a couple of books on the history of Christianity, not sure I am going to purchse this yet and disapointed I didnt see all the TV series.

Thank you Stuart for the link. The intentions for the law are all good and in line with God's purposes for man and woman and children, however the punishments are very severe, why should this sin be punished more severely than any other sin particulalry sexual immorailty such as adultery? In my view if as Christians we are not to judge the world our prayer is that people committing same sex acts would come to know repentance through Christ than be punished in these ways.

To Pluralist,

Your thinking seems directly contrary to Jesus Christ’s NT teaching. Believers and followers of Christ, His disciples, according to Christ, are those who have faith in Him and seek to do what He taught. ie John 14-15. He said to love Him and remain in Him is to do what He teaches. To actively promote a sin described in His teaching is not seeking to do what He taught.

Galatians 6 describes how brothers in Christ should restore each other from sin, 1 Corinthians 5 describes how those who are wilfully sexually immoral and merely call themselves brothers should not be associated with, but loved as those in the world. See also Matthew 18:17. So brothers are those who can be restored from siun and error. 2 Timothy 3 teaches that all scripture is God-breathed and useful for teaching and correcting each other. 

Salvation through Christ isnt a club as you put it, Christ dies so that all who believe may believe and have life in abundance and to the full. Righteousness in found in Christ, if we could be righteous on our own Jesus would not have been needed. Therefore those who put their faith hope and trust in Christ have righteousness and purity through Christ. Not sure what the entry criteria are for what you describe as a club. Romans 3:22, righteousness or purity is found in Christ, see also 1 Corinthians 1:30 and 1 Peter 3:18

To Colin Coward,

You wrote ‘the teaching of the church when it has been wrong’, yet even I have on this post presented the word of God on the issue which shows same sex relations are detestable to God and error. The Anglican Communion decided on this with Lambeth 1.10. Clearly your view is in error and your view is disobedient to both God’s purposes and the church. By the way I am a confirmed and practicing member of an Anglican church.

At present your whole argument of same sex relations is not only scripturally baseless but contrary to scripture, and why most of the Church recognise this as major departure and disbelief from core Christian belief.

To Colin Coward,

You say you disagree with my interpretation of scripture, but I haven’t given any interpretation, what I cited and quoted was the scripture itself. It would seem therefore that you disagree with God's word. 

Lambeth 1.10 acknowledges what the word of God says, whatever is contrary to God's word is error, call it what you wish.

If you have some scriptures from the Holy Bible to offer to the debate to substantiate that same sex relations aren’t error and detestable, please offer it.

To Junius,

Well it wasn’t what I said exactly, as I referred to what the scriptures I cited said. I didn’t write the Biblical testimony. In what way do you wish to dispute what the passages say? All of them? There are many more that countenance man and woman together in marriage.

If the Bible is a fallible collection of texts, then how do you tell if it is not all false?

To Mark Bennet,

The dictionary definitions of crime I can see include not only law breaking but unjust and disgraceful acts, therefore I think it is perfectly possible to justify it by scripture in such a way, law breaking from the OT  ie. Lev 18, and disgraceful as in detestable, and indecent and error in the NT ie. Romans 1.   

And I am referring to what the scriptures says according to what the NIV and NKJV versions for example say, perversion or error respectively.

To David H,

I use ‘Brightmorningstar’ as in Revelation.

Revelation 22:16 “"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

The state of course has believers and non-believers, I think we should be trying to reach both the governement and the non-believer with the truth, that same sex relations are sinful and against God's purposes and to forgive and not punish people so severely as is proposed here. But the idea of decriminalising what is a criminal act in God's eyes will rpobably only end up encouraging people to think its ok.