Dear Friends

I didn't want to add another thread on 'women bishops', so am adding this article, which we have just published to this thread.

John's article is our first article in a series on the necessity of women bishops for the good of the church.  Pertinent to this thread, this first is on the support from evangelical history for women to lead.

'Why Evangelical History supports Women Bishops' by John Watson.

blessings in your discussions, Jody

Dear Friends

have a blessed Christmas, and enjoy our Christmas articles.

The newest by James Mercer, 'Jesus in a Rubbish Bin'

Jody

Dear Friends

Fulcrum are, as you are aware, unremitting in their support of women to all three orders of ministry.

We have just published Mia Smith's 'When I am Ordained, I shall wear Purple.' in tribute to the women clergy out there who are still ministering to their parishes despite Tuesday's vote.

blessings, Jody

Dear Friends

we've published Tom Wright's Times article.

please use this thread for your discussion.

blessings, Jody

Hi DavidR

I always so appreciate your thoughtful and perceptive insights on Fulcrum and most of what you say below has purchase.

I simply wanted to state for the record that Fulcrum, as a group of people, will always be work in progress, but we've also always been quite explicit about being 100% for WO and OWE.

We are volunteers, so that what we do as Fulcrum is done in our 'spare time', unlike other groups who have full time paid 'staff' to do a lot of the running around.  Sometimes we might be slower, but isn't it great that we're not just sat on our theoretical arses, but working in real life parish situations - I think this is the only reason that we have any right to speak into these things in the first place.

The truth about this measure is that until only a little while ago, no-one, not even WATCH, were sure whether it was one that was 'okay' for women.  That is why things happened rather late.

When it came to it, the main campaign to get *this* legislation through was the Yes2WomenBishops campaign, of which the team consisted of 3 members of Fulcrum - myself, Stephen and Graham.

The Y2WB campaign was then supported by Aff Cath, WATCH, Awesome, who began to rally their members to support it and of course continue their own work - in particular WATCH, whose tireless work over the last decade must be valued and commended.

Be assured we worked our little butts off to get this through - Tuesday was a 21 hour day for me and I've been working solidly before and since.

Stephen, our Chair, is one of the most pro WO/OWE people that I know and I am never in doubt that Fulcrum should be understood as 'the place to be' if you are for full inclusion of women in the CofE.

thanks, Jody

Dear Friends

We have just published an obituary piece for Kenneth Cragg.

Use this thread for any comments.

blessings, Jody

Dear Friends

as has been noted, Fulcrum are backing the Yes2WomenBishops campaign.  We believe that the current legislation is sufficient for the good flourishing of all within the Church of England and that the majority of the CofE wish to see this legislation passed in November.

please do head to the website and let your GS rep know that you wish them to vote yes: www.yes2womenbishops.blogspot.com.

thanks, Jody

Hi Jeremy

thanks for this.  And of course I can understand some of what you are saying.  I am interested that you say it makes 'no' difference to you how people treat you if they are conservative - I guess because the outcome is the same?

I have some sympathy with this, but have also found it not to be the case in the reality of my life as a priest (at the moment), it makes a whole host of difference if someone treats me like a human being, if they are willing to listen, with the possibility of being changed.  I admit to the fact that there are plenty who I avoid because I think the damage they will do me is too costly and I don't think they are up for a meeting of persons, but there are also a few who I can't dismiss like that.

I personally think that we are doing no-one any good to stop asking the questions of diversity and difference - what does it mean to be a 'woman' priest?  what does it mean to be a 'gay' priest?  or what does it mean to have two men/two women/a man and a woman in relationship with each other, is there difference?

Asking these questions at all does not belie our misogyny or homophobia, although it can, but it can suggest the very opposite.  The difference in that would be in the relationship with the person asking the question.

Jody

Dan

You really have to check your history!

Women have been struggling with the church for centuries when it comes to 'being allowed to serve God'. The fact you do not know this and think that women 'never gave it a second thought' goes to show just how much women have been written out of the history.

But at least for this country you will have come across the Celtic saints. There was a church IN England before there was a church OF England. A Christian tradition which runs in the veins of this land and where Hild of Whitby is considered one of the wisest leaders the church in this country has ever had.

In terms of exclusion and debates today.... Did you know that there are areas of my diocese where I know not to tread because it's considered a 'no go' for women? Or when I go to diocesan wide events, there will be people who will literally not speak to me, or look at me like I am a piece of crap? Women are living in different situations across the country and I am extremely fortunate not to experience these things on a daily basis - although I did when I was in training and it nearly broke me.

I see women being slowly oppressed to death and being told 'not to mind' because at least they are allowed to wear a collar.... Not nearly good enough Church of God! Not nearly good enough.

Dear Friends

we have just published 'Team Harrow' by James Mercer, which picks up on the idea that we flourish when we find ourselves working with each other across theological boundaries where many fear to tread....

blessings, Jody

Hello Bowman and Angela

thanks to Bowman for raising this - interesting that only Angela has responded :)

I simply wanted to offer my own affirmation of enjoying listening to all voices, but am interested in particular in hearing female voices in this sphere.  I think the reasons that they are scarce are complex, but the reality is that Fulcrum inhabits a rather 'male' space.  It's wordy and can be quite aggressive.  Women in general do not function in that way in groups and whilst this is not a physical group, it does function as one.

I think that women find themselves inhabiting this space and then moving on (as I did from 2005-2007 before becoming involved in a different way).  I never 'blame' women for finding Fulcrum too hard at times, or for drifting off and then coming back.  As welcoming as we are as a group, the web space never quite offers the reality of who we are, and never really can.  Although of course it offers good stuff and what it can in the limits of the medium.

So, we work in the way that we can and it's not always conducive to women feeling welcome in the discussion - BUT...I read the stuff, I'm aware of the discussions that are happening and I'm really pleased when women take the time to invest in the community, even for a moment.

blessings, Jody