Here we go again good honest loving christians judging other human beings with a different sin ? way of being / living to our own and asking them to repent!! So what happens to women then we just have to repent because we are female because women are different to men!..Love one another as I have Loved you..That is how i remember it..Judge not lest ye be judged or alternatively we could just say the Lords prayer ie Thy kingdom come Thy will be done as ON earth as IN heaven..In thine image, comes to mind God is God ...I hope god does not look like me because God would need plastic surgery. .But that is besides the point.The point is in a world that is falling apart looking for spiritual direction is it wise to exclude anyone who truly wants to serve God and work towards peace..I thought the comment about fighting against racism to have the one fought for then Judge someone because of sexual orientation is a valid important point..Why are the leaders not giving the example of example and acceptance??  I correct that Some leaders..Is it not part of the job description..?/

waterangel

I feel we need to be deeply concerned about the Bishops losing their rights to vote in parliament..As i understand it and i am always open to correction, the votes of bishops alongside christian MPS is paramount in maintaining a voice in this country..Whilst i believe no-one of any faith and religion should be denied a voice I also believe that because Christianity is a religion of free will and all about our journeys with Christ not (hopefully) indoctrination, We are not as Militant as other religions..With no bishops representing our views they may be lost..I am concerned that it may affect our legal and punitive system and will affect the poor and sick greatest..I am also concerned that the avenues of support for those on the journey will be greatly impoverished..I do agree with the proposal that Bishops should be elected, but then again I wonder if the down to earth basic views of a confused society will be heard. I wonder whether as churches their needs to be a petition to support them..I want to also make it clear whilst i do not agree with everything they all believe and say, I believe they are best placed to represent us in totality as a group who have different perspectives on the various issues that face us as individual christians and as a country..

waterangel

Celinda

I am not an expert on our political system and what I do know can sometimes be hard to remember, however if   a Bishop is a Lord then they have the right to vote on policy and procedure on all kinds of issues in the house of Lords ..It is possible to have a Vicar and therefore up and coming bishop who is also an MP and so they would have voting rights in the house of commons..All Christian MPs have the right to vote in the house of commons..Prior to all of that there are the various commitees with issues which are addressed draghted white and green papers etc..I open myself up to being laughed at and humiliated at my scatty knowledge, but I do not care about that I care about individual christian MPS and Bishops being bullied and overshadowed by a largely secular system, I personally believe they need the public support in a more high profile way..I also believe that the representation from the bishops has to be balanced and there they would part company of agreeance with me because balance means Women bishops as well as men and disabled bishops as well as able bodied bishops and it means old bishops as well as younger ones..But Heh I am just me, I draw your attention to the disclaimer of my point of view from fulcrum..I also offer you the explanation I heard at the weekend and that was that as a country and the bishops especially were originally opposed to Billy Grahams mission.Yet here I am writing on an evangelical site. Hope this is helpful of course if you type into the search bar the parliamentry site will explain it much more eloquently than me..

WATERANGEL

Thankyou eveyone for your very clear and concise answers, I remembered when i read it.. We do have quite good representation numbers wise but until we have women bishops we do not have society reflective represention..ie we do not even reflect parliament which now has female cabinet members..I wonder how can Christ be fully represented when he stood against oppression and not to allow and enable women to be represented fully is to oppress..However I would still support the current bishops in the interim and pray that society can be truly reflected by the church as a whole..

Waterangel

Hello yes i can see what you are saying, about not needing the voice in the House of Commons and having less bishops to represent the views of all ;and that those bishops should share the role of voting and expressing the views..

However as you have acknowledged church attendance is declining whilst belief and a need for a personal relationship with God is increasing..So that being the case I am wondering why the synod is not itself more high profile, ie why they are not as parliament are recording and televising the way they come to the decision they do, so that the general population can actually air their views to them that they might be represented..Whilst the Church and the Arch bishops particuarly Rowan Williams currently give the lead and rubber stamp the outcomes or accept the outcome if it is a failed motion, what is not there and relevant as to who and how many bishops sit in the house of commons is a fully informed understanding of how the synod works ,because we rarely observe it..I know that there are many "religious" debates televised but the general public do not see the prayer and thought and the human aspect of the spirituality expressed in tabling motions ,etc..What needs to be clear is that Bishops are valued as members of parliament and not just a group of people who are tolerated or viewed as an irritant to the systematic machinary of the house..The amount of work involved is as much as the amount a politician or Lord does just differrent, but the financial implications on all sides are equal..

Waterangel

Can anybody tell me how to split my screen so that i can reply to post whislt reading the post concerned This is now my third attempt to reply to petes responce but by the time i get to the end i forget what hes said ..Anyway thankyou pete for clarifying that..and supplying the relevant link i will follow it up later..I hear what  you are saying about the long windedness of debates and discussion and maybe herein lies the problem for broadcasters..That leads me to wonder about summary synod reflection but in the same setting and context of the full synod ie that each days discussion debate is filtered and shown on tv in the same way as we see summerised political debate..With the option of the long winded version which can be watched by choice..I just feel it would give members of the general public a true reflection of the process..

In Christ waterangel

Jody

This is probably in the wrong thread but i am not sure how to put it on the right one..I read your poem on   The Cup and it was beautiful I have written one on the same subject but the title is different..  

The communion of Saints

I sit I kneel I pray

in an active passive kind of way

I concentrate on the bread and wine

To bring myself,

To be refined

I bring to mind my failings of the week

I sit and wait, for the Lord to speak.

In the silence of the cup of prayer

The communion of saints join me there

All had sat , and awaited the invitation,

would they? or could they respond

To the call to receive you  in their hearts

Armed with your spirit

that they might do their part,

For although they sit in eternity, alongside you Lord

 They can also sit alongside me.

The cup of prayer so often shared

With Gods love the true sacrifice

Given freely for you and I

The communion of saints, already there

This is my body Given for you

This is my blood shed for you

Filled with the spirit , I face the next task

To offer Christ to all who ask..

....Waterangel

Thankyou David, I have managed to do it..So I am currently reading Richard Dawkins  paralell between Moses and the Taliban on the RBC Ministries site..

In Christ Waterangel

I have read ephraims last two reflections I particuarly liked his last one I found it very informative for me..It led me to look for walter wolfgang I wondered where he was..I was glad to find his last write up on the french connection site..There was also a video of  james blunts video and song of his experience called "no bravery" ..It made me realize how difficult it is to explain blessings..But i particuarly was interested in the fact that Barak as a verb was interchangable with Thanksgiving..I thought that the paralell is that Jesus /God is within us and thus works through us which is also why it may appear God is blessing God..But then I thought it was the process of change that occurs within that transforms  our words when the participant receives them.ie I am not God but I am of God thus God could be heard through me in the right circumstance..which is i think what you are saying when you say about assuming Gods Character..Great writing ephraim....

Waterangel

This is a difficult sensitive issue for you to deal with nick..IS it possible for you and your curate and servers to use an alcohol wipe and for the congregation to dip the bread in the cup of wine and take them,..I understand that it is not the same in procedure of taking the bread first then the wine but a way round that is to take a part of the bread on its own and then dip the rest into the wine..I am sure this will be a problem for many, but we are not the first country to have this issue and it is not the first time the country has faced a pandemic..I understand that useing indiviidual glasses might be a problem in the C/E because that is the free church way mostly..I always dip the bread in the cup if i have a throat infection ..I think that it is right that the risk are great...If it makes you feel more comfortable you could say a special prayer over those taking communion..Will this satisfy the Bishop and you and the congregation..

In Christ waterangel

As I mentioned earlier it is a really difficult issue..The guidance is good but only as good as the people who follow it..What you say about the contact of hands etc I am thinking on my feet here, but can the guidelines be kept whilst at the same time in the same way as barrier nursing you have on each side of the aisle or in the various appropriate spots have the alcohol wash..before and after the cup..if people then shake hands at the peace they will be cleared at some point in the process..I am also at risk although because i am vulnerable I have had a flu jab  (the winter one)so theres some resistance..so to recap a communicant alcohol wipes hands prior to touching cup the priest or server wipes cup before and after, the communicant then alcohol wipes hands after cup.Though none of this would help if for instance a person got saliva in the cup..if hands had been adequately alcohol wiped the risk would be substancially reduced when dipping the bread..there is one other point I am wondering what the potential for consecrating several cups of wine is so that not so many people are taking from one cup..Of course this is more applicable to large gatherings and congregations where the uptake is over 40..

In Christ

Waterangel

I want to just mention, that we have extensively talked about the practicalities of the communion, but what we have not mentioned is why people are so distressed by the possibility of having the routine of the taking of wine disrupted..I undertsand all too well unfortunately for me how peoples spirituality is affected if they feel that the process through which communicating with God and resolving spiritual issues is in some way disrupted..if the process by which we feel GOD has given us to directly approach him, has road closed and take a left than right turn..ie we sit we listen to Gods inspired word we pray we reflect we approach the alter we receive..we go out and practically share ourselves and our faith..like a car going into the garage taking petrol and driving..The issue being that the communion is often or mostly a place for the resolution of sorrow  And always a place where we no longer feel alone in our personal walk with God.It is that which i feel is important..I personally do not need that same routine everytime God loves me anyway but i recognise that many do need in an insecure society need that particular security..

In Christ