At the risk of moving off the thread topic - David H,  you really need to give evidence for your claim about the lectionary and core biblical doctrines. The infuence of Evangelicals upon liturgical and lectionary revision over the last 20 years has been enormous.

The irony is that in much local church worship both are being discarded in favour of endless accessibility and  informality.

Pluralist what do they care for the Hebrew Bible and all its rich complexity ?  You won't find them poring over Tanahk for hours, or over what the rabbis down the ages have said.  Those rich commentaries remain a closed (Talmudic) book.

OK. The following are all texts directly lifted from the report, thanks to clever free software...

74 We were also surprised at the very limited amount of biblical material in the daily services.

The Hall lectionary provides for reading 'the whole range of biblical literature' over a four year cycle on three mornings a week for 32 weeks of the year.

such an arrangement does not encourage students to read the Bible themselves

Attention should be paid to providing more extensive use of the psalms, and the biblical canticles

97 We found evidence from lectures, assessed work and course outlines of efforts to link 'academic' subjects with aspects of practical ministry. Less successful overall, however, was the teaching in Ministry and Leadership, which tended to focus on the practicalities of ministry at the expense of linking the practice of ministry to fundamental theological and biblical principles.

Evidence from some samples of assessed work and tutors' feedback also suggested that students were not being guided towards sustained or in-depth methods of theological and Biblical reflection on practice.

they should be offered a wider repertoire of theological and biblical reflection on practice from a range of traditions and literatures in practical theology.

I've both been elsewhere computer-wise and didn't see Toby's challenge. Liddon: you've answered it. They didn't get through the Bible in worship - it takes longer than a student's stay - and they had more towards surface studies of scriptures than in depth.

My pluralism includes both looking at the Bible in terms I've outlined and deciding, as a result, when it is relevant and irrelevant.

Hi folks!

All evangelical theological colleges will cover the whole Bible in the course of ministerial study.. what else?! 

And as for breadth and depth of understanding, Wycliffe students are sitting Oxford University qualifications!  You don't get the top firsts in Theology, and the best results among all the Oxford PPHs, even beating some colleges, if all you learn is "narrow" or based on some alleged "canon within the canon"! 

What the inspectors comment in is the frequency of formal services, and the amount  of scripture read and sung in the liturgy.

ps It amuses me that those who are so hot on the Wycliffe's use of the Bible seem to be some of the more liberal commentators; those who believe in "a canon outside the canon"

Hi Jeremy, Liddon

First things first. I'M NOT TOBY HOLE, though I do have the good fortune to share a Christian name with him.

Jeremy, I agree with most of what you say. One observation, though. You spoke about 'the tendency to read Scripture in places like Wycliffe through the spectacles of "the Canon within the Canon"'.

I've no experience of Wycliffe Hall and don't know whether it would describe itself as 'conservative'. But in my (limited) experience, 'conservative' churches have always been aware of, and have striven to avoid, the trap you mention. It's been *some* other churches that haven't managed so well.

Liddon, I see that I was only half right, or half wrong, or at least ambiguous. The quotes you offer contain no evidence that 'critical methods' (form, source, tradition, redaction etc) aren't covered in the Wycliffe curricula, nor that the biblical teaching (by which I meant class teaching) is inadequate. So my question to Pluralist stands.

But I accept that the Hall needs, in the inspectors' view, to 'enable students to draw more creatively and critically on the rich resources of Scripture... in relation to the practice of ministry'. This too relates to biblical teaching, more widely defined - and I accept that, on this marker and if the inspectors are right, the Hall still has work to do.

None of this, of course, supports your charge that what the inspectors identified was 'a mindless fundamentalism in the college', nor even does it say that 'there are suspicions that students jump through the academic hoops in their degrees, then they are trained to ignore the findings of biblical scholars in their formation'. What's written in code and what the code means I leave to you to interpret.

Regarding your final point, if what I wrote was too robust for Pluralist, or for you, of course I apologise. But Pluralist seems able to cope with robust, posts robustly himself and, on this occasion, seemed to demand robust in return. I'd obviously speak less robustly if I were talking to others (or, at least, I'd try to), I think all of us who post here have a responsibility to hold one another to account, not only for what we say, but also for the way we say it.

Regards from Toby Crowe

David H

What you or I might think is adedequate for daily reading is, frankly, neither here nor there. Ordinands are training for ordination into a church that lays a canonical expectation (to put it no higher than that) on them all that they will say morning and evening prayer daily. The orders for such services include a provision for at least one reading at each service. I would have thought it could hardly be anything other than helpful for there to be two at both - it might counter the tendency to read Scripture  in places like Wycliffe through the spectacles of the "Canon within the Canon".

What people choose to do in their own private prayer and meditation is, surely, to be counted as being on top of what the institution ought to provide.

The idea that Wycliffe students are gagging to explore the "rich variety of Christian worship in Oxford outside the college" is amusing in itself - Wycliffe students usually contained enough 'sound men' (I use the gendered term advisedly) to sink a battleship, who thought that visting Ridley was dangerously compromising. But to further imagine that they would be so exhausted by the burden of saying Morning and Evening Prayer that they would not have the energy to get down to St Mary Mags for Benediction (so that their horizons might be broadened by the rich variety etc etc) nearly had me falling off my chair with hilarity. Not many posts on Fulcrum do that.

Hi, Pluralist,

I'm encouraged, as always, by your contribution. I've looked at Toby's last challenge to you, and had a quick skim through the report again.  It is, of course, written in code, but the overwhelming message of the report is 'there are accusations of a mindless fundamentalism in the college', and 'there are suspicions that students jump through the academic hoops in their degrees, then they are tained to ignore the findings of biblical scholars in their formation'.  That's the background. The code that the inspectors employs uses the key phrase 'integration of theology and experience'. A cursory look at the report shows that the inspectors were very unhappy about the way Wycliffe Hall keeps academic theology separate from theological training for ministry. They were also very mindful of the gap between university theology and Wycliffe theology, and the quality of the staff presently being appointed.

Here are some extracts:

in the area of ‘Practical and Pastoral Theology’, as a priority, there is a need to

review and revise the structural planning, theoretical training and practice-based

learning of students at Wycliffe Hall – to include formal introduction to

theological reflection, and tutorial direction and support for students in

challenging experiences and placements;

the Hall should strengthen its institutional and academic commitment to the

standards, values and practices of Oxford University and its Faculty of Theology;

In other respects, however, relations with the University are good. Wycliffe

students perform consistently well in University examinations, although there are

some anxieties within the University concerning the academic standards of some

qualifications offered in the PPHs. It is our understanding that the proposed

curriculum reforms will address this, by ensuring that PPHs only teach towards

qualifications validated by the University; but the indications are that the

Supervisory Committee will need continued reassurance that standards of

teaching within the PPHs are appropriately high.

It is clear to us that despite recent difficulties significant goodwill exists, on the

part of senior figures within the Faculty of Theology, towards Wycliffe Hall. We

heard expressions of concern at the effect on the Faculty of the departure of

several senior members of the Hall’s staff, and a wish to see them replaced by

successors of comparable academic standing. We therefore urge Wycliffe Hall to

make the restoration of trust and good relations between itself and the Faculty a

major priority. In particular, we urge Wycliffe Hall to honour its commitment to

building up the research profile of research-active staff to enable them to take an

active role within the Faculty.

In the interests of consolidating a spirit of collaboration and confidence

between itself and the University when making academic staff appointments,

Wycliffe Hall should always invite the Chair of the Faculty of Theology to

appoint a nominee to be involved in the processes of selection and

appointment.

In making decisions that could affect other partners, such as staff

appointments and in considering new opportunities for ordination training

pathways, Wycliffe Hall should consult, collaborate and co-operate with its

partners in OPTET.

Provision for ordinands undertaking a third year of training after

graduating with the Oxford BA should be reviewed and rationalized, with

particular attention to furthering their capacity to integrate theology and

practice.

The continuing process of curriculum review and revision should be mindful

of:

ﾕ how best to incorporate a breadth of theological and ecumenical perspectives;

Wycliffe Hall should incorporate its Integrated Study Weeks and Focus Days

more fully into the academic curriculum – and in particular should consider

the part they might play in the resourcing of assessed work – as a means of

modelling the greater integration of theology and practice.

Programmes in Ministry and Leadership, Pastoral Theology and Mission,

and Pastoral Placements, should pay special attention to fostering a range of

methods and models of theological reflection on practice:

37

ﾕ to enable students to draw more creatively and critically on the rich

resources of Scripture, culture, tradition and experience in relation to

the practice of ministry;

 Finally, may I say how sad I was to see that Toby used his post to attack you in a personal  way. It seems to be his method of debate when he is losing the argument.