Damned if you do, Damned if you dont. What was the purpose in bringing in the comments of Rowan Williams? was it perhaps that so that absolution could be seen to be given to those who were jubilant.?Was it because people want to deflect attention away from the act and give the responsibility and the fallout to Rowan. It is well kown that Rowan is not a fan of war.

Perhaps it would have been more appropriate to ask an army chaplain what they felt, for that may have helped the armed services and their families. I hope and pray that there is no injured soldier on the streets of London or elsewhere who is confused and mentally tormented by this who has been overlooked, being aware of terrorism is only one small part of this, one tortured mind in the middle of London can also be devastating, as the consequences of the Raoul Moat shooting showed in Cumbria., No his was not war related, so in fact he was less vulnerable than a man out there where it is, especially if they get tormented..

Waterangel

Carl,

9/11 was a crime not an act of war. The perpetrators and co-conspirators committed a crime in the USA and are properly accountable to the US judicial system. To take the metaphor of a war on terrorism literally is to give them  a legitimacy they do not deserve. Wars are armed conflicts between states.

James,

An alternative way of dealing with this, which I think would have been far better, is a raid by the local police and army. The headline grabbing pictures of the raid being observed from the White House were distasteful and there was initial misinformation on how Osama died. The unauthorized actions of US forces in a country they are not at war with is worrying. of course Pakistan dare not object. The objections to this are that he could have escaped and evidence could have been destroyed. The building could have been observed by US agents and they could, if agreed, help in processing the scene.

John,

How far should we take your stirring quote? Does it apply for example to Raoul Moat ?

Dave

The 9/11 attack was not a crime.  It was an act of war.  It was a political act of assymetircal warfare intended to produce a poltical outcome.  Nations do not respond to acts of war as if they were crimes.  They do not convene grand juries.  They do not trundle before (ficticious) International Courts and request search warrants.  They do not provide suspects with Miranda warnings.  They do not provide a defense attorney and they do not let suspects off on technicalities.  Instead, they locate the enemy and then kill him.  Iindeed, they must locate the enemies cause and defeat it as well.   

You can never right the scales of a terrorist attack like 9/11 with a trial.  Even if you catch and convict the guilty party, you are juxtaposing the private punisment of one  man with the geopolitical impact of his action.  The cost to the country is wholly disproportionate to the cost inflicted on the terrorist.  On the one hand, 3000 peoiple are dead, and a massive economic upheaval is triggered.  On the other hand, a few terrorists go to jail.  To the terrorist organization, that is an acceptable outcome.  It sees the convict as expendable - a soldier in a war.  The terrorist organization is willing to expend many such soldiers in order to acheive his objective.  It will not be deterred by trials and imprisonments.  In fact, it is aided when the victim country treats its attacks as crimes, because the response will be ineffective.  To have impact, the response to a terrorist attack must be directed at the cause of the terrorist.  It must attack (either dirrectly or indirectly) their ability to achieve the objective for which they attacked.  This response must be political in nature, and not legal.  That allows for military power to be drectly applied when required by the situation.  Fussing with trials will only help them kill with greater efficiency.

carl

I think it was Gore Vidal who called his country the United States of Amnesia….there is indeed a lot missing from this narrative including American praise of and support for Osama Bin Laden when he was active in the fight against the Soviets in Afghanistan.  The US celebration of the mujahideen showed little awareness of and less interest in exactly what kind of society these warriors would create for the hapless Afghanis once the Soviets had left.  The Great Game is always what matters.  In the mission-creep that is Afghanistan today, much is made of how many young girls can now got to school – never mentioned is how the US supported the ultra-conservative forces that made getting an education such a deadly business for women.

Thank you John for raising this. I share your concern. I found the jubilation expressed by crowds in New York both understandable, but at the same time profoundly disturbing, especially the clip in which an individual expressed glee at the conviction that Bin Laden's soul would now be condemed to God to the darkest reaches of hell. Who was it that warned about 'fighting the Romans with the weapons of Rome'?

That said, I'm not sure what an alternative resolution might have looked like...

There is also lack of due process. Even Saddam was tried by a court. And what happened to turn the other cheek?!

No John

I do not think you are the only one who is concerned about the jubilant reaction, but it is just that a reaction, my greater concern is what about the depression that follows for, yes they have justice sort of, but they still have loss. Can this natural reaction now give way to forgiveness and healing of the soul? possibly..

Can we look our muslim friends and relations in the eye and say we are jubilant i doubt it, it will be a much more measured response i am sure..

The issue for any religion including in fact mostly Christian has always been the issue of immorality not being punishable by law, where as the consequences of it are more devastating than illegality and often leads to loss or death.

Strategically The bible talks of scattering the peoples, the effect being that accumatively they are not so powerful but of course the bible was written in the days where mobility was not so easy so now it is as you allure to about changing the ideology.

If ever there was a time to reach out to muslims it is now, now is the time to say we do not blame you. Depression will be on all sides, for many families of those killed also for many muslim families. Now is the time for the liberal muslim to open the door and offer a hand of friendship and or us to accept it.

Waterangel

Am I the only one who's been worried by the shallowness of the talk following the killing on Osama Bin Laden?

1. There is a strategic issue. So you eliminate one cell from within a network dedicated to violence, but these are designed to continue activities and reproduce new cells and affiliates. Only a change of heart and mind will bring real change.

2. There is the moral issue. A friend has shared this perceptive thought from Martin Luther King. "I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

So where are we now?