nersenpaul,

I think that you missed my point, which wasn't about selflessness at all. They have clearly had a spiritual experience and have grown a fondness towards St Paul's that they hadn't expected. 

Every generation has had its campaigns of one sort or another. This, probably the oddest of all campaigns, came with an eternal gift for some of them which has left them bewildered. 

If they are left with a sense of loss over the location and a hankering to be amongst Christians, there is only one way that they are going to fill it now.

In their own words, 'a strange and beautiful 4 months'

BTW, I did suggest to a few of them that perhaps with their computer skills and incredible on-line grape vine that they may have solid foundations for a new political party. If they are serious about changing their world, why not take their ideals into Parliament, it is still democratic and attainable. Why camp anywhere in London if you can legitimately sit and nod off in  Houses of Parliament.  :-)

God bless

One considerable achievement of the protest camp has been to generate a debate on Fulcrum of a length normally only happens when the topic contains the word 'Gay'.

It would seem to me that whatever they  aimed to do, one of the protester's concrete achievements was to bring about the resignation of three of the cathedral's senior clergy.

For my part I want to say thank you to those who protested outside St Paul's and elsewhere. We are a society and economy in desparate need to moral renewal and this camp has been a signficant trigger in the process - not least within the CofE. Thank you for those who made real sacrificies to be there. Thank you for the spirit of the protest there. I found my visit there very moving and challenging. Thank you for those who now approach their life and work with new purpose and a sense of moral foundation they didn't have before because of the discussions they have been part of. Thank you for the groups that have sprung up around the City and elsewhere of business men and women are seeking out places to talk about the values that underpin their work and ways they could begin to make a real difference. Thank you for those who feel they have found a voice and have felt heard, perhaps the first time. Thank you.

'A day of little things no doubt - but who would dare despise it'. Zech 4.10

Hi nersenpaul,

 The protesters had a lack of strong leadership and objectives, they also had a desire to retain a lifestyle which included computers and other creature comforts back home. What they did achieve was a sense of physical community, love and togetherness which will stay with them for the rest of their lives. Their fondness and attachment to St Paul’s will never go away and through that a connection to Jesus will stay with too. They will also have gleaned a deeper understanding of the rhythm of life in the cathedral as they witnessed the comings and goings, and maybe some will go on to seek out a community of believers they can join.

 From the early days they fully understood that their position was untenable and the bubble was going to burst sooner or later. They never intended to upset the church, they ended up there by default. The camp was an ill-gotten spontaneous idea which once implemented was a little difficult to dismantle as it would have involved moving kitchen equipment, toilets etc... 

 However, they gave themselves respite from the relentless and oppressive demands of life today, felt important for a while and had a little fun, admittedly in an irresponsible way. From speaking with some of them I felt that the true essence of their gathering was the oppressiveness of the computerised world that the younger generation find themselves in. They are torn between that computerised world of communication where money has no relevance, where on-line communities can be organised instantly and idealism seems attainable; and a knowledge that it’s not reality. 

 Quotes from their own site.  

“The last thing to go were the kitchen shelves. Around a dozen occupiers peacefully resisted to the last; a short distance away a vigil continued on the Cathedral steps as others observed, supported, prayed and remembered.”

 “The relationships forged during these strange and beautiful four and a half months still have much further to run. This is only the beginning.” (1)

The Lord works in mysterious ways.  :-)

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1. Occupy London Press Team A promise from Occupy London: this is only the beginning February 28, 2012   http://occupylsx.org/?p=3786  

so.... the trespassers have gone...... what have they achieved?

a democratic failure -  in a city of 7m, only about 150 people turned up;

a political failure -  what change in government policy has been achieved?  Didn't see the TUC or Labour party at the camp supporting their trespass....no policy change from govt resulting from the activity, zero real achieved - just publicity for a tiny group which has failed to attract many despite the huge population in London;

a moral  failure-  illegal trespass in a liberal democracy in which legal protest is possible, in which 1m can and did march legally in protest...no need for illegal activity; 

a lack of message.... if income inequality is the issue (maybe just envy), what is there to moan about in modern Britain in which the top 1% of income tax payers pay around 30% of all income tax....fewer than 1 in 100 people pay for about a third of all govt spending on schools and hospitals...highly redistributive taxes .......  what do the trespassers pay for?

no real help for the poor in London or anywhere from the illegal trespass ....actually, hundreds of thousands of extra costs for the taxpayer and the cathedral ....... money which could have been better used on schools and hospitals ............ a huge waste of taxpayers' money(even before benefits claimed by the trespassers are added in).

The trespass at StPs was a democratic, political and moral failure....not surprised it has failed to achieve anything good -  especially for the poorest in our society

Well?

An interesting echo of Nersen's posts of 15 January can be found here.

Simon,

Is it fair to attack the integrity of more than 161,000 people in 154 countries with quite the vitriol you do on the basis of a handful of unproven accusations?  All you are doing is parroting ill informed comments from politicians. Have you and evidence that either the comfort letters or the audit report were not issued properly other than the 20/'20 hind sight of Vince Cable?

Dave

Dave - remind me again who used to audit Northern Rock? Oh, it was PwC. The Treasury seemed happy to cast rational doubt on both the integrity and competance of the auditors in their report regarding the collapse of Northern Rock. Or don't you accept that?